Dreams-Part-4
welcome everybody to another session of home with theosophy we have been exploring this boat by LED bitter dreams what they are how they are cost and in our last meeting we explored the more the more basic aspect of dreams the ones that are generated by the automatic action of our brain and today we are going to explore some other aspects that are deeper and more interesting from a spiritual point of view so the first part of the meeting will have we will read parts of the book the dreams book and then in the second part of the meeting we will explore I brought some something that Ledbetter wrote in a different book that is called invisible helpers because Ledbetter is assuming that there is a certain knowledge that is not described in this particular book so I thought that it will be good to to read a little about this aspect as we are going to see so the exercise during the that that we suggested for the week was to start paying attention to these kind of physical dreams the physical dreams are those typical dreams that physical meaning the ones that are just generated by our brain and our nervous system our physical body and that are those chaotic fragmentary and many times including external stimuli those kind of dreams which are very frequent or which we frequently remember because trying to starting to pay attention to the dream is a The Dream's is a way to begin to develop our our ability to remember them and so the first step is to start paying attention to the dreams the second step is beginning to differentiate the different kinds of dreams this aspect is very rarely worked in in different traditions they assume that all dreams are of the same quality and in the in the philosophical view there is a far more deeper and complex view of dreams so what we proposed is to begin to be familiar with how these physical dreams work so that we can discern them from the other kinds so today we are going to go on with with the subject then in the last meeting we ended in the idea that they the true consciousness that Ledbetter calls the ego in the sense of a sense of inez the true consciousness when the body's asleep is on the astral body if you see they are the table this is the on the astral plane there is the astral body that is the vehicle of consciousness as we are going to see today again repeat little this concept the astral body may be very little developed or very well developed when it is little developed the consciousness in the astral body is similar as the consciousness in a baby is for the most part asleep and may have some perception that come from the outside but they they are way as the the the soul evolves and the astral body also develops then consciousness awakens more and more on the astral plane and eventually can move around on the astral plane as the baby as he grows can move around on the physical plane so now we are going to pay attention in particular to the consciousness of the ego to our true consciousness when the body is asleep the ego in sleep though the condition in which the astral body is to be found during sleep changes largely as evolution takes place that of the ego in having it changes still more where the former is in the stage of flow of the floating wreaths of mist the ego is practically almost as much asleep as the body lying below him so we explained in the previous class that they the the astral body beat begins by being just like a mist or a cloud of astral matter with no organization and of course that kind of astral body cannot serve as say a good vehicle of consciousness the impacts that come from the outside are are lost in in trying to to be translated by this mystic kind of astral body they cannot be translated to consciousness or or transferred to consciousness in thin air in a clear and sharp way and as evolution goes on we just said that the astral body begins to be organized but also the consciousness itself evolves along with evolution so we have these two branches of evolution the evolution of the vehicle of consciousness the bodies and the evolution of consciousness itself so there is a degree of how awakened and how how much the the consciousness understands there is a great variety of states in different people he is blind to the sites and deaf to the voices of his own higher plane and even if some idea belonging to it should be by chance reach him since he has no control over his mechanism he will be quite unable to impress it upon his physical brain so that it may be remembered upon waking if a man is in his primitive condition recollects anything at all of what happens to him during sleep it will almost invariably be the result of purely physical impression made upon the brain either from within or from without any experience which his real ego may have had being forgotten so this is his he's starting with when when the soul is in the early stages of evolution even if if the consciousness of the ego that is from the astral body perceives something from the astral plane or from the higher planes it's almost impossible to impress that in the brain because the brain again it normally the brain is very active on it's on automatic activity and on the the unconsciousness doesn't know how to impress that memory on the physical brain there is something that consciousness learns to do as evolution goes on so most of the dreams that are remember are the dreams that are just produced by the physical body now libido says there that the the ego inhabiting the astral body may perceive something from his own plane he says from the higher higher planes if you see the chart the consciousness of the ego is from the astral body but that means the astral body is the lowest vehicle of consciousness but there is always influence coming from the higher planes so just like when we are awake on the physical plane we may have an inspiration and that inspiration comes from the higher planes we may be too distracted to really perceive that inspiration or we may perceive it so the same happens with the ego in the astral body especially at the in the early stages of evolution even even if son in some influence influence comes from the higher planes it's unable to perceive it or even if he does in some way it's very difficult for him to impress it on the physical body so at this stage of evolution that the activities while the body is asleep are are not really important for for consciousness it's just in a state of awakening so the the experience is array of knowing import sleepers may be observed at all stages from this condition of oblivion up to full and perfect consciousness on the astral plane though this latter is naturally comparatively rare even a man who is sufficiently awake to meet not infrequently with important experiences in this higher life may yet be and often is unable so far to dominate his brain as to check its current of in consequent thought pictures and impress upon it instead what he wishes it to recollect thus when his physical body awakes he may have only the most confused memory or no memory at all of what has really happened to him so there is a whole degree of states of consciousness on the astral plane mmm the as consciousness evolves it begins to be little by little more aware of the astral plane but not necessarily in a very clear way it's just like if you are focused reading or watching TV or something and you may hear that I don't know the oven the alarm of the oven went off but if you are concentrated on on the TV you may not be completely aware that the sound is they are a part of your consciousness here's the sound the sound until suddenly you realize that there is something going on well on the astral plane many times this happens that even if the person is aware on the astral plane and not just asleep as from the physical plane there may there may be some stimuli coming from the astral plane but the person is still center self-centered like in a little bubble and we faintly aware of what is going on with evolution the consciousness begins to be more and more and begin to identify with clarity the different stimulus stimuli that comes from the outside so but even when the ego Leadbeater says there is some extent aware of the astral plane still it is difficult for for him to be able to impress it on the physical body we have to remember that the lower we go in in the planes the harder it is to impress the matter with consciousness so when the higher planes consciousness and matter are almost the same but as you go down in on all the planes then it is more and more difficult for consciousness to move matter to impress matter with its own energy so to say and this is a pity for he may meet with much that is of the greatest interest and importance to him not only may he visit distant scenes of surpassing beauty but he may meet and exchange ideas with friends either living or departed who happened to be equally awake on the astral plane he may be fortunate enough to encounter those who know far more than he does and may receive warning or instruction from them he may on the other hand be privileged to help and comfort some who know less than himself so here the the idea is I think that I keep coming back to to the example of of the baby and a child because we know how consciousness little by little awakens on the physical plane and as consciousness awakens as the understanding develops as the physical body also develops then that person begins to be able to have a wider and Y wider range of activity so on the astral plane as evolution goes on at the beginning consciousness is like a baby cannot do much is for the most part unconscious then begins to be more and more conscious as they've the the asteroid body developed the consciousness can use the astral body to travel around at the beginning not too far from the body and eventually the person may have a very active active life on life on the on the astral plane even more active than on the physical plane may go to places may may have a relationship with other people as leaders as they are learn do things we are going to explore that a little so there is the whole grade or degree of TVD on the astral plane that happens as we evolve okay Lee has a question what can a person do to bring about the evolution of his or her astral body so that he may function well upon the astral plane yes we we are going to talk about that but I can mention here that the general ideas that the astral body is developed by increasing the activity on the higher body so the higher body to the astral bodies the mental body as consciousness begins to work more and more on on the mental body the the activity of this body begins to to emanate a certain influence that brings the astral body in order so that is one aspect in the same way if we want to develop the mental body as a vehicle of consciousness we need to start trying to stimulate the activity on the causal body the causal body is more is related to spirituality so let's say you know in simple ways we could say the causal body is related to two spiritual ideas spiritual endeavors spiritual intentions the mental body is related to understanding is our mind trying to want to think in a clearer way in a precise way well if we think in vague ways our mental body so so vague is like a mist the more clearly we think then the that forces the dimension body to to organize itself and that has a repercussion on the astral body so a mental activity a healthy and ordered mental activity is part of what we need and the other is to try to break the self-centeredness because there are many people at this point in evolution since most of the educated people at this point in evolution have a well-developed mind to some extent the astral body is also pretty well developed but the problem is that most people are still very self-centered so even though they have an astral body that could could devour or interact with the astral plane they still don't perceive the astral plane so in our daily life we have to begin to develop these awareness that is we have to break through this self concern constantly being in this bubble of my problems and my wishes and my desires so those I would say are the two major aspects of this he may come into contact with non-human entities of various kinds with nature spirits artificial elementals or even though very rarely with Davis he will be subject to all kinds of influence influences good or evil strengthening or terrifying the astral plane is a whole world many times is called the astral world just like the physical is so on the physical plane you have good people you have people that are trying to scam you you have good animals you have animals that if you encounter them they can kill you you have all kinds of influences same happens from the astral plane on the astral plane are good and bad entities are good and bad influences on the physical plane you get to people by physical proximity if you go into a four and then you you start working you may come across a tiger because you got close physically to the tiger on the asteroid playing the affinities are not at the level of space but are at the level of the kind of emotional life we have so when the the emotional life is closer to selfishness and aggression and all these negative feelings we are closer to the to the negative entities as in the physical plane we would be closer physically you know at the level of space with with bad people or or or animals so this state of unconsciousness that consciousness are they in the early stages of evolution is in it's actually a protection so when people there are many people that try to artificially stimulate these asteroid projections and astral travels and all that but many times studies that is not something good for several reasons we already discussed the the idea of having too many a lot of stimulus coming to you and being overwhelmed at the level of consciousness but also there is this other aspect that we may find things that are actually even dangerous so that is a nature knows how to do things how to do think things gradually so us as long as we work on our you know developing our mind as I was saying on on trying to be aware and breaking the self-centeredness on trying to cultivate good emotions then when we are in the astral plane we will be far away from the negative entities that doesn't mean that we can all come across some here and there but the the purity itself is a is a kind of shield so let bitter is saying they are not only human entities we can find but also we can find nature spirits or Davis now on the astral playing Davis art for the most part on the higher planes they work the the Devas are like angels and most of the spiritual entities rarely go down to the astral plane on the astral plane you you find for the most part either people who died and ours are there the astral plane kind of stuck trying to - to retain some contact with the earth or you have nature spirits that are a lower kind of Davis if you want to call it like that they are forces of nature and you may have people who are sleeping and they are active on the astral plane and those who are active on the astral plane when the body is asleep for the most part they are more or less evolved people but higher entities are rarely found on the astral plane although they can be found but not not so so frequently he makes more or less successful endeavors to impress these memories upon the brain when we take into account the stupendous difficulties in his way in the case of an ordinary person the fact that he is himself probably not even half awake that he has hardly any control over his various vehicles and cannot therefore prevent his message from being distorted or altogether overpowered by the surgeons of desire by the casual thought currents in the etheric part of his brain or by some slight physical disturbance affecting his denser body we shall not wonder that he so rarely fully succeeds in his attempt so the the ego when the ego is more or less awakened on the astral plane many times as Leadbeater says they are tries to impress the physical brain but it depends that the the success in doing this depends on several aspects first the skill of the ego of our consciousness their true consciousness the skill that consciousness has and also how much consciousness can still the emotional body the astral body that is the vehicle of emotions the etheric and the physical body it's not too different from meditation for example we seek to meditate and we can see how our mind does what the mind wants our emotions are all over the place our physical body also may have these sensations of that sensation and then we have to struggle with it to calm it down it's more or less similar the ego when on the astral plane and is trying to increase something on the physical plane it needs to bring all the vehicles into harmonium and in certain calmness so since we as consciousness are learning to do this for the most part the dreams that we really remember are a mixture of elements and we are going to discuss the see that in our next meeting but this is more or less the general the general view about dreams remember that there is the the activity of the physical body that can interfere the activity of the etheric body that catches on thought forms that are around and the activity of the astral body itself that all may come in the way of the attempt of the ego to impress some knowledge or experience on the physical brain so the whole spiritual life and the practice to be aware and the practice of meditation and all this it all is conducive for us to to begin to establish a more more reliable connection with with our astral consciousness but whether he remembers anything when physically awake or not the ego who is fully or even partially conscious of his surroundings on the astral plane is beginning to enter into his heritage of powers which are transcend those he possesses down here for his consciousness when the sliver from the physical body has remarkable possibilities so he doesn't talk anymore about this we are here I think is where we are going to jump into this other book to talk it about one aspect of the subject but they did said the the astral body can travel almost in almost instantaneously any anywhere in the world it's not instantaneous it takes some time there it seems that they the truck the moving on the astral plane requires some kind of translation or some kind of journey if you will the the space there is not like the physical space but there is still some kind of sense of distance however when the the astral body is fully developed a person can think of Egypt and being in Egypt in a few seconds or or can go to different places and there is never a sense of being tired on the astral plane there can be activity all night and and the sense of fatigue never appear what else then well there is no illness or many of these limitations we have on the physical body so the activity on the astral plane is far more extensive than on the physical then the same happens when the person begins to be aware on the mental plane that surpasses by by far the experience on the astral plane and so as the consciousness begins to be aware on higher and higher planes so he says here that when consciousness begins to be aware of the astral plane it begins to awaken these latent powers this hairy heritage as he says of the infinite possibilities that we have when we begin to make full use of our whole being and not just being limited to the physical the reality of super physical life from the book invisible helpers it seems difficult for those who are accustom only to the ordinary and somewhat materialistic lines of thought to believe in and realize fully a condition of perfect consciousness apart from the physical body so this is what we are talking about the possibility of even perfect consciousness when the body is when we are not in the body as the person begins to be really aware on the astral plane and if that awareness begins to be little by little or gradually transferred to the physical plane then the the fear of death disappears because consciousness by my direct experience knows that can be alive without the physical body there that the physical body is really not necessary to retain consciousness now when we are in our waking state because we don't remember any of this we may have this be afraid I'm thinking that that we depend on the physical body but the the consciousness of the our activity on the astral plane eradicate any fear of death every Christian at any rate is bound by the very foundations of his Creed to believe that he possesses a soul but if you suggest to him the possibility that that soul may be a sufficiently real thing to become visible under certain conditions apart from the body either during life or after death the chances are ten to one that he will scornfully tell you that he does not believe in ghosts I think the point there is that the astral body is a real body in certain conditions it can be made visible we are not going to talk about that in particular but this was even taught by st. Paul st. Paul say that we have three bodies the physical body then we have the psychic body which would be this astral body and then we have the spiritual body so and simples would say you know all the bodies are real bodies but in Christianity of course the concept of the soul is normally very vague and undefined we must shake ourselves free from the trammels of contemporary thought on these subjects and endeavor to grasp the great truth that the physical body is nothing but a vehicle or vesture of the real man it is put off permanently on death but it is also put off temporarily every night when we go to sleep indeed the process of falling asleep consists in this very action of the real man in his astral vehicle slipping out of the physical body yes I think that's quite clear this is no mere hypothesis or ingenious supposition there are many among us who are able to perform and do perform every day of their lives this elementary act of magic in full consciousness who passed from one plane to the other at will so the bidder was able to do this and several other people at the time that were associated with him too there is certain a certain point in our evolution that that we can retain the consciousness when going from one plane to the other first from the physical to the astral and then to the the other planes so that when the body goes asleep there is not a break in the continuity of consciousness now that also has different degrees sometimes there may be a short break when when passing through the the highest sub plane of the physical plane to the astral plane but eventually there is a continuity of consciousness so what he says there is that this is not a philosophy in the sense of something that we may think of and speculate that at least for him and some other people this is a matter of experience now of course we read this and for us it's not a matter of experience this is something that somebody that we may trust or not depend depending on how we feel about that person but it's a testimony of somebody about something that he claims to be a reality now the man who has not yet developed the link between the astral and the physical consciousness is unable to leave his denser body at will or to recollect most of what happens to him while away from it but the fact nevertheless remains that he leaves it every time he sleeps and may be seen by any trained clairvoyant either hovering over it or wandering about at a greater or less distance from it as the case may be to retain consciousness there the the etheric chakras has have to be linked to the astral chakras so that requires a particular technique now a person can work on trying to force as I said that connection and then that person would begin to be aware of the astral plane in his waking consciousness now having that connection doesn't imply that the consciousness on the astral plane will be accurate or inaccurate the person may have may be still half asleep on the astral plane or let's say half awakened on the astral plane and with certain techniques the connection may be done and that person will remember everything that he experiences on the astral plane but nevertheless those experiences would be for the most part experiences that that he made up on the astral plane not necessarily real experiences so my point here is that the ability to move around on the astral plane and perceive clearly the astral plane and the ability to remember that are two completely different set of skills we may have one and not the other or vice versa and they they don't imply each other so of course it would be for many people it would be interesting to remember the activities on the astral plane but the most important part is to be able to perceive and to act on the asteroid plane in the right way before we can't remember any of that and as Li asked and we discussed a little in order to be able to do this basically we need a spiritual practice as we were describing purifying our emotions envelope in our awareness and developing our mind and then remembering or not it's a secondary problem which as we grow begins to happen naturally the entirely undeveloped person usually floats close above his physical body scarcely less asleep than it is and comparatively shapeless and inchoate and it is found that he cannot be drawn away from the immediate neighborhood of that physical body without causing serious discomfort which would in fact awaken it so this is a different book he repeats this and I want it just to to bring it up again at the beginning on the earliest stages of evolution the the astral bodies just they're close to the physical and if it goes in little away the person wakes up with a sense of fear or something that if the physical consciousness is still not accustomed to having the the ego sleep in a way on the astral body as as the man evolves however his astral body grows more definite and more conscious and so becomes a fitter vehicle for him in the case of the majority of intelligent and cultured people the degree of consciousness is already very considerable and a man who is at all spiritually developed is as fully himself in that vehicle as in this denser body so we could say that that most of fasts of people who are interested in this subject will will be more or less in this degree that ledbetter is describing we most probably have to set some consciousness of the astral body or may even be quite fully aware of the the astral plane so there is a degree they are that's more or less the position in which we probably are I am saying probably I know this because it's difficult to generalize but just to give an idea and as we try to follow a spiritual life then we become more and more aware on the astral plane but though he may be fully conscious on the astral plane during sleep most people at this stage are so wrapped up in their own train of thought usually a continuation of some line taken up in waking hours that they are like a man in a brown study so much absorbed as to be practically entirely heedless of all that is going on about them and in many ways it is well that this is so for there as much upon the astral plane which might be unnerving and terrifying to one who had not the courage born of full knowledge as to the real nature of all that he would see so we discussed this a little many times you know when we say I sleep on this problem and then we wake up and we may have some some solution to the problem this is the result of the the ego working this out on the astral plane so that is possible even when the ego is not fully aware of the astral plane meaning of the things that are going on around him so the release a stage where the ego is awakened on the astral plane and then there is a further stage where there is a way it is awakened on the astral plane and also we are off the astral plane so what he talks about here is when the ego is awakened on the astral plane but still in this kind of bubble so again many of them and this is just my speculation but I think that many of the samples of these dreams that we really remember and that we can manipulate and that we can fly or do these they are not necessarily I mean of course it's it's important to try to be aware on on the the astral plane I have these kind of dreams but then if we are set Center we are doing all this this thing inside our bubble that doesn't mean that we are really living a an astral life we are just having fun inside of the bubble so I I wouldn't place immediately a value on lucid dreaming by itself there is some value there that they in the sense that we are aware and we can impress that awareness on the physical brain but there is more that that is needed what we want is to be aware of the astral plane and not just in our little bubble creating and recreating worlds of imagination invisible helpers sometimes a man gradually rouses himself out of this condition wakes up to the astral world around him as it were but more often he remains in that state until someone who is already active there takes him in hand and wakens him this is however not a responsibility to be lightly undertaken for a while it is comparatively easy thus to wake a man up on the astral plane it is practically impossible except by a most undesirable exercise of mesmeric influence to put him to sleep again so he's talking now here about this concept of invisible health Ursa we don't have a lot of time to go into but I wanted to bring it up to show an example of what kind of experiences we are talking about when a person is fully aware on the astral plane so let bitter says that there the there is a band of people on the astral plane just as there are many on the physical plane that instead of being in their own bubble or having fun with their own self-centered influences they are awakened on the astral plane and they are trying to help just us on the physical plane many people there are many people that are living in a bubble making money for themselves developing their skills for themselves and they don't have a thought of using that to help other people but there are many others that are interested in helping in trying to make the world better or the family or whatever cynical of influence same happens from the astral plane there are people that find themselves away are awakened and they naturally if they on the physical plane they are inclined to help on the astral plane they will naturally be inclined to do the same if somebody self centered on the physical plane he will be self centered on the astral plane because we are the same person we we have the same attitude so he says a we can naturally awaken on the astral plane little by little that would be like like a gradual natural process but many times when a person is at a certain point of develop and development has the appropriate qualities he may be held helped to wake up on the astral plane in order to become helper there so now what what he's saying there is that a person that is already awakened on the astral plane and is part of this this group of helpers which may sound weird but is not too different we are all members of the Theosophical Society we get together and we do things together well we do similar things on the astral plane if we are awake there so he says that sometimes some of these invisible helpers see a person that has the qualities that could join this band of helpers this society on the astral plane let's say so that person may be many times you may know the person on the physical plane and think oh this person you know is is a mature person it's interested in helping it would be great if this person could join us so it is possible to try to awaken a person on the astral plane that is already aware on the astral plane but not off the astral plane as I was saying now let Peter says this is a responsibility that is taken very carefully because if you away like a person on the astral plane and then that person gets scared or cannot handle it or whatever may happen then it's not easy to go back and put that person back to sleep like if nothing happened so so the according to Ledbetter there there is this possibility of being awakened there to join this this group of people that are trying to help on the astral plane so that before a member of the band of workers will thus awaken a dreamer he must fully satisfy himself that the man's disposition is such that he will make good use of the additional powers that will then be put into his hands and also that his knowledge and his courage are sufficient to make it reasonably certain that no harm will come to him as a result of the action if you want to know more about this get the book invisible helpers you can borrow it from our library or buy it and see there are many stories and examples of what kind of help can be done from the astral plane and normally the people who are awakened and/or that join the this this group they go through a little training on the astral plane to realize that that fire cannot harm them that if they fall into the water or have to go into the water they are not going to drown or if they fall they are not going to to crash so there is a little training area that is there so that then they can freely move on the astral plane to to and people around people both on the astral plane or on the physical to such awakening is performed such awakening so performed will put a man in a position to join if he will the band of those who helped mankind but it must be clearly understood that this does not necessarily or even usually bring with it the power of remembering in the waking consciousness anything which has been done that capacity has to be attained by the man for himself and in most cases it does not come for years afterwards perhaps not even in the same life so here again the difference between being aware on the astral plane and bringing that memory into the physical it person may be very very active on the astral plane and yet have no clue on the physical plane and another person may remember a lot of silly things that he may be doing on the on the astral plane and yet still be in a little bubble and anything in between so my point is that we don't have to be fooled unfortunately the physical consciousness is the most limited aspect of ourselves so we can't judge ourselves or what we do or who we are by our physical perception or whatever perception we will remember on the physical plane so as he says after some years if the person follows the spiritual discipline then little by little that person begins to remember these dreams dreams of helping in accidents or our dreams of you know doing different things and those dreams have a particular feeling a feeling of reality they are not chaotic unless they get mixed up with other things and we are going to discuss that too they they are quite varied they are quite coherent and sometimes you may even find some clue the physical plane that that was what is remembered actually happened but many times this we remembering of the activities Ledbetter says doesn't even happen in the same lifetime it depends on many factors so any any person can be very active and still have no clue on the physical plane that he or she is but happily this lack of memory in the body in no way impedes the work out of the body so that except for the satisfaction to a man of knowing during his waking hours upon what work he has been engaged in engaged during his sleep it is not a matter of importance what really matters is that the work should be done not that we should remember who did it though as yet unable to carry their consciousness through unbroken are nevertheless by no means wasting the hours when they think they are asleep but spending them in noble and unselfish labour for their fellow man so yes well once we are awakened on the astral plane then we may be very active and doing even more meaningful things when on the astral plane and on the physical plane on the physical plane we may be in a situation in life where we are too busy taking care of family or or whatever we have to take care of or our health may be not very good and we cannot be very active but when the body is left when we go to sleep then we may we are free from any of those limitations so the as the person evolves spiritually the activity on the higher place becomes more and more important and then the the physical life becomes a relatively small fragment of the life and activity of that person so this is something important to keep in mind this may serve us as a stimulus to to follow the spiritual life because we are actually extending our our circle of influence of usefulness and eventually if we are lucky enough to begin to remember some of the experiences that's usually encouraging but as Leadbeater said those things don't necessarily come without you know some challenges also whenever we expand our consciousness that are usually also challenges associated so we have to trust that nature knows far better than us and we have to do our best and then let nature take care of the how all these things manifest such assistance as that to which we are here referring may most fitly be given by men and women at a particular stage of their evolution not by the add ups since they are capable of doing far grander and more widely useful work and not by the ordinary person of no special spiritual development for he would be unable to be of any use so here is again this idea similar idea to what I said about the Devas the the the Masters of wisdom as we we understand them in the Theosophical tradition they were very rarely have their activity on the astral plane most of their activity are in the mental plane and even on the higher mental plane at the level of the causal body for them to go to the lower planes is kind of a waste of time because then the lower you go in the planes the more restricted your powers are and on the higher planes those who are able to be aware on the higher planes as they masters are then they can do an activity that no other that most humanity can't because we are asleep on the higher planes so the idea is that there is a chain of of beings and a chain of activity where we all help at whatever level we are awakened so if we are awakened on the physical plane and not still on the astral plane the ideas begin to try to be on the physical plane and do whatever you can because the masters are helping humanity on the higher planes so it is us the ones that have to be become co-workers of the Masters on the physical plane on and do that work then as we begin to be aware on the astral plane then we can fulfill that role on the astral plane and not expect that you know the Masters or spiritual entities would come to the astral plane to do that work so in that sense we can become co-workers of the Masters even if we are not direct disciples of them but in the in the overall scheme of evolution we are doing their work on the place where we are aware and that would be a waste of energy for them to chew out on those planes we find that this work of helping on the astral and lower mental planes is chiefly in the hands of the pupils of the Masters people who though yet far from the attainment of a DEP ship have evolved themselves to the extent of being able to function consciously upon the planes in question so those who are disciples of the Masters end up in the philosophical tradition there are not many people you know in some traditions in the New Age it looks like everybody is a disciple of the Masters and this and that in the Theosophical view the there are different stages of growth of development so to say and when we we are people that have to to a large extent transcended the limitations of our personality when we are able to to be aware on different planes even if we if the physical brain doesn't remember it when the person is not self-centered when when the person is beginning to reshape the mental and emotional body so that the negative emotions are they are less and less frequently then this kind of people may become fit to be a disciple of the Masters and and they have if freely an activity on the the astral and the mental plane planes the lower mental planes usually but the before getting there people that are students of spiritual traditions that are working on they are they are spiritual development they can begin to have some activity on the astral plane and join this this group of invisible helpers so that's the the idea of for an example of activities that may may go on on the astral plane that can be remembered in dreams or as dreams when we wake up in our next meeting we are going to see the different kinds of how we we may remember these different kinds of activities as I said this part was not really in there in the book on on dreams but since I don't know if we all are aware of the possibilities of activity on the astral plane I thought that it was good to incorporate this at this point and and and then when the bidder goes into this question of remembering actual experiences on the astral plane we will know what he is referring to now another thing that I want to clarify is that it is not that every person that is awakened on the astral plane is part of the invisible helpers there are many people that are working on the astral plane just by their grad natural evolution and they they may not necessarily join we you know busy themselves trying to help they may be aware on the astral plane and go here and there and visit friends and do whatever you do on the astral plane actually the it is said that many times people get together in what on the physical plane would be kind of lectures that we do similar things obviously Astra lized in the sense of adapted to the conditions of the astral plane but the activities on the astral plane are not radically different from the activities on the physical plane so there are groups of people you can visit places some people who like music they can go for free to any opera you know you don't have to so far you not have to pay on the astral plane I'm sure when all humanity is aware there they are they will find some way to to make you pay but so take advantage right now that they are not yet materialistic people there but joke apart aside the there is a whole activity there without necessarily being part of the the band of invisible helpers if you as I said if you are interested in what kind of activities they do go to that book and if you have any questions about it you can send me an email we can discuss it so I think this is all we have for tonight yes so we can go now to questions or comments do you have any any comments or questions so what we have read something that Lee had asked about meeting you know dreaming with people who had died on the physical plane this is frequently the remembrance of an actual experience on the on the astral plane as I said on the astral plane we get we get in touch with people entities situations not by by spacial proximity but by affinity so when somebody that that is dear to us died the person is like in a permanent sleep the the connection with the physical body is severed so that the person cannot go back to the physical body but the person is from the astral body in a not too different state from in a live person there are some differences because when when a person dies the astral body rearranges itself unless the person knows how to prevent that rearranging from happening but that's completely different subject so there are some differences but yet the person is aware on the astral plane so because of this affinity that we have if we are awake on the astral plane to some extent at least we we just run into this person because because of the affinity as I said so many times the remembrance of of talking to people on the astral plane that are there are actually you know memories of an actual inner change of our experience and then how well we remember it it's a different subject if you see if you read the books by descent and later on on life after death they say for a person that is awakened on the astral plane when somebody dear dies all that changes is that now we are in touch with the person while we are asleep asleep and then we forget when when we are on our physical body which is the reverse - what happens when when the person was alive during the day we have a relationship with the person we go to sleep and we forget about the person so they say it's it's really that the relationship is not broken the problem is that for the most part in most people they don't remember you know when we wake up that memory cannot be impressed in the brain maybe because of the the surprise that one gets the first time that one means the dear one on the on the astral plane maybe that that produces an impact in our consciousness and that impact is transferred to the physical brain so that we remember it but then the relationship with people on the astral plane may become matter-of-fact and then we never ever remember again dreaming of this person although we may be very well be in constant relationship to him or her Tianna asks why does a bad dream wake us up well there are two reasons and actually Navasky says in one of she wrote a small book it's not a book originally was a dialogue with the Blavatsky Lodge about dreams he was now it was edited as part of the transactions of a blob a ski lodge and they were talking about dreams and Blavatsky said we should train ourselves to wake up whenever we are going to do something wrong in in our dreams because we can generate karma also on the astral plane now again we have to differentiate we may have a dream of killing a person on the astral plane and that may be a thought form that was floating around or because we saw a movie before going to sleep and this is just a physical dream that doesn't generate any Karma or anything but on the astral plane we may run not I'm not saying killing a person we may run into situations where we can also make mistakes or do bad things just as from the physical plane so Blavatsky said we should always train ourselves to wake up when when we are about to do something wrong on the on the on the astral plane now how do you train yourself in that I don't know I mean normally the answer is it's always the same by training yourself to do it while you are awake so if you try to refrain yourself from doing bad things when you are awake a tendency will be also transferred to the astral plane now what dreams may be the result of different different kind of influences as we are going to see next week if it is really a bad experience on the astral plane Leadbetter said there are frightening things on the astral plane then they cannot really necessarily affect us although there can be some we can be affected on the astral plane in some ways but normally it's just a question of being afraid of there are some elementals that will take on the image of a monster for example because they don't like the intrusion of human beings you know they they know they have the experience that in nature whatever we call we destroy nature you know to build our houses that they don't understand to generate our companies that they all they see is that we destroy nature so at this point in evolution there is a kind of elementals are not very sympathetic with human beings and many times when they see that a person awakens on the astral plane they try to scare the person away so that may be one of the reasons of bad dreams and we wake up because we are afraid and we just go back to the physical plane and sometimes a bad dream maybe just bad digestion and the physical body gets scare and and calls the the Astra and consciousness up you know when the physical awakes then the our consciousness that was on the astral plane is brought brought back to the physical plane so if the physical body is uncomfortable for any reason as I said about digestion for example and that generates a physical dream bad physical dream that the physical elemental will wake up the body and then our consciousness is brought back to to the body so in all these things there may be very I think one of the points of this book is that there are many different influences and things are not simplistic and as we pay attention to all this we begin to acquire experience and know or at the beginning we begin to guess and then little by little we begin to be more certain as to what is going on when when we have it a particular dream or experience yes marina has a question maybe you could ask it in the microphone Michelle's microphone I can repeat okay Laura Michelle can have marina asks what is the relation between between meditation and the astral body yes meditation is actually one of the ways to stimulate or to reorganize the astral body on the astral plane and to making a faith vehicle of consciousness they basically one of the things we want to do on the astral bodies to to make it more compact so to say it from amazed to make it more of a body with a structure so in meditation that is exactly what we are trying to do this activity that of our thoughts and emotions that tend to to go out to be you know chaotic by the action of our will is is try we try to bring some order to keep it in control and that is that action of our will is reflected in our astral body so the astral body with the practice of meditation is brought into more and more control and shape so the bidder actually says that one of the main practices to develop the astral body so that it can be useful on the astral plane is meditation now as I said I would add to that and enable to stimulate positive emotions as opposed to the negative emotions life is complex and we always will have will be stimulated to have some negative emotions you know it's only when we are getting closer to the to be free from the personality that we may transcend the negative emotions but in our spiritual work the the negative emotions begin to have less less room in our life and we begin to be less identified with them so that is important as a protection on the astral plane and also breaking the self-centeredness because as I was saying we may have it perfectly well evolved astral body and be awakened on the astral plane and be playing around little bubble and that is not necessarily you know relevant from a spiritual point of view so meditation is important specifically for the shaping of the astral body any other question or comment alright then thank you everybody for joining us I will send again an exercises that just suggested exercise if if you want to practice it and we will meet next Tuesday and begin to explore the different sources of of dreams that that come from the ego know from the physical body or the etheric table or the astral body so I hope I see you next week let's see what Jimmy says okay thank you for being here - and have a great week