Dreams-Part-5
welcome everybody to our fifth meeting in at home with Yousefi we are going through this book by letter on dreams what they are how they are cost and today we are going to explore something that is closer to the the interpretation of our dreams again not necessarily interpretation at the level of the symbolic meaning of the dreams as we are going to see symbolic dreams are only one part or one type of of Dreams and there are several other phenomena that are experienced by our consciousness as dreams today we are stuck we are going to see all these different kinds of dreams and in the next class we will see some examples as to how all these different experiences many times are mixed up in in one single dream when we wake up and we remembered those experiences so let us start with the first the first quote the ego in sleep his transcendental measure of time and then just a reminder that when he says his that's the pronoun for the ego yes and the the the ego if you let's go to this table again the word ego remember that means simply I miss the sense of eyeness it comes from the Greek and when the sense of I NSE is spiritual then we have a spiritual ego when the sense of the sense of I Ness is personal then we have the personal ego which is a one that psychology for the most part is works with that the personal ego now the the the origin of this sense of eyeness in the Theosophical teachings is on the monastic playing manners is the Sanskrit word form for mind on the higher aspect of the monastic plane we have the causal body the causal body is the vehicle of consciousness for for what we would call the soul the sense of of our sense of being the source of our sense of being now in sleep the consciousness that it's coming from Manas it is expressing itself at the level of the astral body so it's not the pure monastic consciousness when we are awake consciousness is expressing through the physical body so the the in fact is expressing through all the different body cells the mental the astral etheric and the physical body state like the the anchor of consciousness so our pure consciousness has to express itself through all these vehicles and each one of them impose certain limitations so our physical awareness is far more limited than what our real awareness is of course the real awareness are ultimately speaking comes from admin but that is a more Universal kind of awareness so the awareness with this feeling of I am I am myself I am I comes from Manus so when we are talking about the ego in sleep we are talking about our consciousness as it is expressed expressing itself through the causal body the mental body and the anchor for it would be the astral body and on this plane our consciousness is different and ledbetter is going to explain how consciousness expresses itself while the body's asleep his measure of time and space is so entirely different from that which we use in waking life that from our view it seems as though neither time nor space existed for him I do not wish here to discuss the question as to whether time can be really to exist I wish only to show that when the ego is freed from physical trammels either during sleep trance or death he appears to employ some transcendental measure of time which has nothing in common with our ordinary physiological one so on on each from a metaphysical point of view at least in the Theosophical approach time and space exist in different ways on all the planes on all the manifested planes it is only on the plane of the absolute that time and space do not exist in in any way that we could call it time and space however since we only know the physical manifestation of time this this succession of past present and future and also the physical manifestation of space as being a distance that we have to travel through from one point to the other then from this point of view time and space on the astral plane are completely different to the extent that it looks like there is no time or space or at least that they work in a in a different way let's see it has his hand up go ahead yeah I think any time we experience something the experience exists in duration and some volume it just isn't the linear predictable kind of thing that we experience more on the physical plane yes and libido will give some example of that but but basically as long as there is some motion as you say there has to be some perception of time and some perception of space illustrative examples of it it seems that in the there is a wonderful narrative concerning a visit paid one morning by the Prophet Muhammad to heaven during which he saw many different regions there had them all very fully explained to him and also had numerous lengthy conferences with various angels yet when he returned to his body the bed from which he had risen was still warm and he found that but a few seconds had passed in fact I believe the water had not yet all run out of a jug which he had accidentally overturned as he started on the expedition this is a description of an experience on the inner planes that the Mohammed had while the body was not not really asleep but he fell into a trance and he had all this long experience in in a matter of seconds seconds from the point of view of the physical body this is not exactly a dream but the same thing occurs constantly in ordinary dreams and there is abundant testimony to show it Ryker's a german writer tells the story of a man who was awakened by the firing of a shot which yet came in as the conclusion of a long dream in which he had become a soldier had deserted and suffered terrible hardship had been captured tried condemned and finally shot the whole long drama being lived through in the moment of being awakened by the sound of the shot one might multiply authenticated cases like this to any extent probably many of you have this experience sometimes we are awakened by by a physical stimulus whether some water that falls into our face or something that happens in one moment and we wake up but with this long dream that happened in the few seconds or instance between the physical stimuli reached the brain and our brain woke up so there there is there is a different way of experiencing time on the inner Plains and this has an important influence in dreams and in how we experience dreams and we are going to see some examples his power of dramatization another remarkable peculiarity of the ego in addition to his transcendental measure of time is suggested by some of these stories and that is his faculty or perhaps we should rather say his habit of instantaneous dramatization it will be noticed in the case of the shot just narrated that the physical effect which awakened the person came as the climax to a dream apparently extending over a considerable space of time though obviously suggested in reality entirely by that physical effect itself when people talk about or mystics or a cultists talk about how the ego things the ego meaning as I said our true consciousness it seems that it thinks through images those images when they come today to the mental body and in the astral and then the physical and express themselves through the brain they come out in words words are symbols of the images that we have but it seems that the way the monastic consciousness perceives is through symbols through images and when the ego is in in the astral body if the ego is say of a person that is developed and that ego he or that person which is the same is working on the astral plane then that person is having a real experience but as we have seen in many people at this point of evolution the ego is in the in the astral body not not necessarily asleep the ego is aware but not aware of the environment so it is in the astral body doing what we normally do during our day just involved in our own thoughts in our own activities you know if you look at your mind during the day you would see that the mind is constantly thinking and we are highly aware of what the mind is doing during the day but many many things something happens and then the mind begins to take that that thing that happened and build a story in which we are involved it may be something not related to us at all we see an accident and the mind immediately begins to think what we would do if we were in an accident or a relative or so there is this tendency at this point in evolution of the mind to generate these images these stories this this kind of self-centered activity and the same does the ego on the astral plane when it is not actually working on the on that plane whatever happens that ego generates a story of it and in this case is there is an example there was this this sound of a shot and the ego generated all the story of being a soldier and being shot you know in a trial and shot so these two aspects of how the ego works again are the foundations for the kinds of dreams that we have so there is so far we have seen the different perception of time and this habit of generating stories in which we can see it as I said even in our physical mind okay Lee has a question or a statement I occasionally hear a loud noise when I awaken the noise is always different and unrelated to any dream I was having now is this a physical noise or is something that happens in your mind we widely is writing the answer we have to remember that the the physical brain state keeps perceiving on the physical plane even if the ego is not there so it may translate some of these external stimuli into or communicating to consciousness and then our consciousness may make a story of it now listen that it is not a physical sound so that is more how your consciousness is probably translating the passage from the astral plane into the physical plane I have no experience that particular let's say way of interpretation of that sometimes the different people may interpret the passage in different ways some some people just wake up with sadness because consciousness on the astral plane is far freer than it is on the physical plane so coming back to the physical body if you remember at all the experience of of the astral plane and I'm not talking about remember remembering what happened but if you bring an intuition of of the feeling of being outside of the body when you come back to the body there is this sense of oppression or weight or being clad in a kind of armor heavy armor that's many times how consciousness experiences or interprets coming from the astral plane to the physical now regarding the noise side I don't know I haven't having experienced that but it's probably related to it it would be interesting for you to pay keep paying attention to that and try to see what feelings are associated if if any now isn't along with symbols part of the mental plane one of the attributes is sounds or lights so could it be a sub plane that that's coming from yes the mental plane is associated to a caution that is associated to to sound as Michelle says and it could be yes I I don't know no I don't know normally the the astral plane is a plane of feelings and since Asians so if this is this is a psychic effect psychic in the sense of belonging to the psychic planes the astral and the lower mental he may come associated to a feeling on the inner planes the senses are not separate taste sound sight they are they are a characteristic of the whole astral body we don't have censuses on the physical plane so there is a particular kind of stimulus that is translated into sound when you are waking up and it would be something interesting to research in yourself and see if you can find the meaning the ego went out of the body is able to proceed with absolute instant a instant nattie without the use of the nerves and consequently is aware of what happens before the information reaches his physical brain in that barely appreciable space of time he appears to compose a kind of drama or series of scenes leading up to and culminating in the event which awakens the physical body after waking he is limited by the body and becomes incapable of distinguishing in memory between the subjective and the objective therefore images therefore imagines himself to have really acted through his own drama in a stream state so when the ego is from the astral body there are two sets of perceptions that are going on at the same time the ones that are coming to the physical body and are being communicated to the brain and the one that the ego is consciousness is perceiving outside of the body you know in the near-death experiences the body the brain the heart they are not not active they are dead from a medical point of view and yet consciousness can see can see that the operation room around for example they can hear people talking because all these as I said all these perceptions they do not depend on the physic body they depend on the physical body when we are acting through their physical body so if your lights don't work then when you are within the body you don't see but when you go to the astral plane you can see you can see through the astral side so to say so when there is this for example this sound there is the perception of the physical body and since the sounds struck the year until the this depolarization of the membrane of the nerves is transmitted to the brain there is there are some instants that that elapsed but in those instance the the the ego in the astral body that also heard - the shot produced all these images in that very brief lapses now when we come to the physical body these two independent perceptions come into one and that is many times the origin of confusion in dreams as we are going to see some examples especially next in next class today we are going to see how all the different dreams that are there or sources of dreams and in our last class when we see some examples of how this works out then we will understand better what part each of these sources of dream playing normally this habit however seems to be peculiar to the ego which as far as spirituality goes is still comparatively undeveloped it would seem that just as primitive man casts every natural phenomenon into the form of a myth so the unadvised ego dramatizes every event that comes under his notice but the man who has attained continuous consciousness finds himself so fully occupied in the work of the higher planes that he devotes no energy to such matters and therefore he dreams no more so when he talks about comparatively undeveloped remember that in the Theosophical view we are only halfway through our evolution so we are all comparatively undeveloped comparatively - what we can or we will be eventually so it's like a flower that is still a bad and and then in time that will blossom into a flower so there are some people at any time in evolution that have gone through through all the different stages either because they went faster or as it is more frequently the case because they have studied their evolution before in previous systems but we cannot go into that the point is that for the most part most egos are at this point in this particular state in people who begin to be interested in a serious spirituality we are in the transition between that kind of state and the state of active work conscious work on the inner Plains and in many of us we can be in between the two and sometimes the ego will will still do these kind of things and sometimes the ego will be doing some work on the on the astral plane so that's something that we need to keep in mind and not get the wrong idea in the sense of saying that people are less evolved or it's just a natural process of development so but eventually when the ego is active on the astral plane there are no dreams anymore in the in the regular sense remember what the dreams that that are merely imaginations are the ones that are produced by the brain the ones that are produced by the etheric double the etheric brain and this kind of dreams the one that is produced by the ego on the astral plane so these three are simply visualizations and putting in picture different stimuli and these are dreams that do not correspond with reality again we are going to see examples of this so this will be clear now when dreams begin to see to be as we are going to see today remembrances of actions on the astral plane or visions of the future or insights into things those are not really dreams in the sense of imaginary pictures or visualizations these are remembrances of actual experiences so this is why Leadbetter says that as the ego begins to awaken on the astral plane it begins to be basic working on these inner planes then most of this Dreaming begins to receive still the physical body will generate its own broken broken images the etheric brain will also generate this chain of images because they still have some automatic activity but little by little those experiences begin to recede into the background his Faculty of prevision another result which follows the egos super normal method of time measurement is that in some degree prevision is possible to him the present the past and to a certain extent the future lie open before him if he knows how to read them and he undoubtedly thus foresees at times events that will be of interest or importance to his lower personality and makes more or less successful endeavors to impress them upon him so this is something that some of you may have experienced this is not that uncommon of dreaming about something that is going to happen in the future and again when I say not that uncommon I'm not talking about in generally humanity but in people who start working spiritually at some point this may begin to happen it's not necessarily a sign of any anything in particular you know if you if you start putting your these things and you start trying to work on calming your mind then these things may happen but they're for those who this begins to happen is very evident that the the future or at least the near future can be seen even in silly things you know I know of people that had dreams about very concrete things that happen in the future a game finished or or why was going to happen in you know in a particular situation as Leadbeater talks about in the book sometimes there is a very important reason why the ego tries to impress the lower consciousness the physical brain sometimes is a question of life on there and I haven't put a lot of examples here because we don't have time to go through it but if you read the book there are several examples but sometimes it's not even important if if you start remembering what you see on the astral plane you may remember things that are not really relevant it's just that the Akashic records are they are you just happened to see them and then you wake up and you remember them so let's talk a little more about this in the preview in the next slide it has sometimes been argued that if events could really be foreseen they must be for ordained in which case there can be no free will for man in the affairs of the average man it is probably possible to foresee something to a very large extent since he has developed no will of his own and is consequently very largely the creature of circumstances his Karma places him amid certain surroundings and their action upon him is so much the most important factor that his future course may be foreseen with almost mathematical certainty so if we have a person that simply reacts to the environment you can predict what that person is going to do if the person meets somebody that treats him well or ill you can predict how how that person will act people don't think about being fair they you think about just responding us as you treat them so in certain circumstances it's obvious that they will take this option or make this choice but as we begin to try to do the right thing not to be led by emotions by conditioning then it's not so easy to foresee what will happen because we may be in a certain situation and then even if we react to that situation when we can think about it what we decide to do is not necessarily what our emotions would tell us to do so the more a person begins to be free from the environment to to act the less you can predict what a person will do and on the contrary the more you just react mechanically to circumstances the easier it is to say what you are going to do I know very very little of of astrology but I have noticed that when when I did the astral charts of friends in the Theosophical society you could see that they were quite different from what the chart said of course there were always some things that were they are but you could see that there was some some work when I did it with regular people that they are in no particular discipline or religion with no particular intent of working on themselves you could see that the the the astral chart chart was just a picture of what they were so you can see how these works in that way but when we come to deal with a developed individual a man with knowledge and will then prophecy fails us for he is no longer the creature of circumstances but to a great extent their master true the main events of his life are arranged beforehand by his past Karma but the way in which he will allow them to affect him the method by which he will deal with them and perhaps triumph over them these are his own and they cannot be foreseen except as probabilities so this is more or less what we were talking about now before we go to this however so this is a how the creation of the destiny works we generate causes that produces circumstances and those circumstances that are already produced chemically we can foresee this is going to happen because they were already produced in the past now how we will react to that that cannot be foreseen B as long as we are free from reacting mechanically so many times in your dreams if you are seeing the future in something that is important what you will see is a circumstance in which you will you will find yourself or other people but not how you are going to react to that so that is important to keep in mind his symbolic thought another point worth notice in relation to the condition of the ego went out of the body during sleep is that he appears to think in symbols that is to say that what down here would be an idea requiring many words to express is perfectly conveyed to him by a single symbolic image now when such a thought as this is impressed upon the brain and so remembered in the waking consciousness consciousness it of course needs translation often the mind duly performs this function but sometimes the symbol is recollected without its key comes through untranslated as it were and then confusion arises because of these characteristic of perceiving in images and images have far more information and it's not only a visual image it is a feeling image many times if you remember a dream and you remember what what happened especially if this is it is this kind of symbolic dreams how you felt is as as important a piece of information as what happened in the dream because feelings are part of of the symbol so you may be reading something and have the feeling that is a long long reading that may mean that whatever the dream is symbolizing will take a long time for example and nothing in the image of the dream will tell you we'll talk about time but the feeling of there's been a long text for example that you are reading implies that this process will take a long time so because images with feelings have so much information and this is the way that the ego perceives on the on the inner planes many times when that is communicated to the physical body the physical body cannot necessarily translate all into concepts sometimes it does if it is a relatively simple simple symbol maybe you remember as a concept but many times we just remember the symbolic thought so these are the typical dreams we are going to see a little about this later of dreaming that you are in the middle of the ocean in a boat and it was raining and you know this kind of symbolic dreams that then you may wake up knowing what it meant you may wake up without knowing what what it meant the kid to translate that is lost in the translation so this requires some practice there are some you know young and many other people have studied this aspect of dreaming which is just as we can see it's only one aspect of dreaming and they have studied this they have found that there are certain symbols that seem to be collective but at the same time there are many symbols that are personal so I'm not sure that you can really go to a book or an interpretation of dreams and then be sure that that is a the way you have to interpret your dream as with anything else related to the inner life it is by trial and error that you learn so if you have often this kind of symbolic dreams it is good to first to familiarize yourself with the quality of your dream and try to pay attention to remember it as good as possible to pay attention to the feelings associated etc and then as we are going to see in the next class you will have to learn how to disentangle the dreams because many times what the ego was thinking on the astral plane is mixed up with what the etheric brain was doing on the physical brain with experience you begin to see all this is a physical element most probably or this is you know part of the mechanism and then you can you can get that the the core of that leap many people however are quite in the habit of bringing the symbols through in this manner and trying to invent an interpretation down here in such cases each person seems usually to have a system of symbology of his own there are however a few points upon which most of these dreamers agree as for example that your dream of deep water signifies approaching trouble and that pearls are a sign of Tears so yeah these are just examples of what we were talking about so now let's these then are characteristics of how the ego on the astral plane perceives it has the perceives in a different time frame it tends to perceive in images in symbols and many times can see pieces of the future or the past so this added to what we have already explored how the brain works and generates images on its own now we can see all the different factors that come together in the production of different drinks the factors in the production of Dreams having thus exam the condition of man during sleep we see that the factors which may be concerned in the production of Dreams are one the ego who may be in any state of consciousness from almost utterance sensibility to perfect command of his faculties and as he approximates to the latter condition enters more and more fully into possession of certain powers transcending any that most of us possess in our ordinary waking state to the astral body ever palpitating with the wild surgeons of emotion and desire remember the astral bodies on the astral plane there are constantly thought forms and feelings floating on the astral plane and as they impact our astral body they may generate a kind of echo so the astral body itself may generate a dream which is normally related to emotions to to feelings so we have the ego that may be creating these images we have the astral body then go on three the etheric part of the brain with a ceaseless procession of disconnected pictures we've been through it normally the dreams that come from the etheric the ether is like the lower aspect of Akasha Akasha is like the memory of nature so many times there are images going through floating so to say in the ether and may be perceived by our etheric brain sometimes it is memories from when we were a child or from the past or from things that happened sometimes these are images produced by other people so there are some dreams where there is a succession of of memories which they are not particularly symbolic they they are not they don't seem to have any particular meaning they are just these pictures that are picked up by the etheric brain and again we will see some examples of that did I read number 4 no I'm sorry for the lower physical brain with its infantile semi-consciousness and its habit of expressing every stimulus in pictorial form normally the image is produced by the brain so have a sequence or too much of logic they are fragmented maybe for example you feel a prick on your body and then you may have the dream that you you are being killed but with no story behind if there is a story like in the example of this bullet then that is being produced by the the ego on the astral plane then the physical brain would would just produce a kind of image tends to exaggerate all these stimuli and it's just a fragmented image which many times is added to something that has far more substance than this when we go to sleep our ego withdraws further within himself and leaves his various encasements freer to go their own way than they usually are but it must be remembered that the separate consciousness of these vehicles when they are allowed to show it is of a very rudimentary character when we add that each of these factors is then in infinitely more susceptible of impression from without even then it ordinarily is we shall see small cause - we shall see small cause to wonder that the recollection on waking which is a sort of synthesis of all the different activities which have been going on should generally be somewhat confused so this is one of the reasons why it is so difficult to to research into dreams because of all these different sources of information that get come together and and this we know about this it's it's difficult to separate to sort out what things in a dream maybe may be useful and what others are Leadbetter will now talk about the different kinds of dreams in a general way and in our next meeting we are going to see some concrete examples to see how all these elements come together and they form one single dream and you can recognize the different elements that came from different places and when you see the example you will probably recognize yes many times I have that kind of of Dreams and this is because of that mixture of elements the nature of dreams the true vision this cannot properly be classified as a dream it is where the ego either sees for himself on a higher plane or has impressed upon him by a more advanced entity some fact which is which it is important for him to know or some glorious and ennobling vision which encourages and strengthens him happy is a man to whom such visions comes with sufficient clearness to make its own way its way through all obstacles and fix itself firmly in his waking memory so as leader says this is not really a dream in the sense of this imaginary stories this is the memory of a real experience true vision as he says and if we are awake on the inner planes many times we may come to important realizations that then we may make an effort to impress on day on the physical brain we are sleepy nurses there we may come in touch with either a person that knows that it that is skillful in the realities of the inner planes we may come in touch with some advanced entity whether an angel or something like that although as we said that is not all that common on the on the astral plane but it may happen or we may see on the Akashic record something that is important and then when we are on the astral plane we think this is important for me to remember when I wake up so we try to impress that on the physical brain but then whether we can do it depends on first our skill to impress this on the physical direct brain and the receptivity of the physical brain and it's not too different from when our emotions are altered for example and we are trying to to keep to keep calm you see the tension and the effort and our effort to keep the emotions at bay and many times we are not able to do it in a similar way we may be on the astral plane us and say I need to remember this but then we are not able to to calm down at the the astral body and the thetic goggle and the physical brain to be able to impress that memory so let bitter says happy is the person that has this kind of visions and has the ability to impress it on the on the physical brain with the spiritual work all this becomes easier or more probable many of the things we see on the astral plane you know it would be great if we remember it but it's not really essential but there are some occasions in which it is important when some hardship is going to come on the physical plane for example the on the astral plane you may be aware of that far in advanced because in advance because the causes in the universe come from the inner planes to the outer plane when they happen on the physical plane that is the last key or or you know the last key in a chain of causes so many times on the astral plane you already know what is going to happen and if you can impress that knowledge on the physical brain you can like prepare yourself to face things you know with calm or whatever the right attitude is so it is important part of the spiritual practice not only study but actually practicing has an effect on on this aspect to the prophetic dream this also we must attribute exclusively to the action of the ego who either foresees for himself or is told of some future event for which he wishes to prepare his lower consciousness this may be of any degree of clearness and accuracy according to the power of the ego to assimilate it himself and having done so to impress it upon his waking brain so yes I about the two kinds here the information you may get on the astral plane may be just a delivery of knowledge or understanding or instruction or you may have these prophetic dreams that I was talking about that you try to remember to prepare your your lower consciousness and again how much you remember it will depend on all these factors sometimes the event is one of serious moment such as death or disaster so that the motive of the ego is endeavouring to impress it is obvious on other occasions however the fact foretold is apparently unimportant and it is difficult for us to comprehend why the ego should take should take any trouble about it of course it is always possible that in such a case the fact remembered maybe only a trifling detail of some far larger vision the rest of which has now come through to the physical brain yes also sometimes the the whole it may be that sometimes is a detail of something that was larger or sometimes it's just something that used you really say you know what's the meaning of this why it's something that has no consequence but I guess in those cases is not necessarily that you made a special effort to impress it on the brain but it's just that it was impressed if your brain was quiet if the conditions were were appropriate even without and if you have some you know develop some skill even without trying there there is this memories that filter down of course most of in very few cases the there are questions of life and death in the life of people you know in general but in those occasions where there is even sometimes you you can there are examples in the book again that you can read where there is the memory of or the vision of something that is going to happen and yet you cannot change anything even if it is an accident the accident will happen even if you try not to that I don't know why you would see except just to be you know to be ready to know that it was preordained by karmic causes and help you you know take it in a more philosophical way perhaps but sometimes you you cannot really do much and sometimes the ego impresses it on the brain not because it has any particular purpose it's because his you saw it on the astral plane and you know you the impact that that produced on you is impressed in the in the brain but not because you were supposed to do anything particular now as we said these are not we are dreams in the sense of in imaginary things these are memories of something that was real often the prophecy is evidently intended as a warning and instances are not wanting in which that warning has been taken and so the dreamer has been saved from injury or death in most cases the hint is neglected or it's true signification not understood until the fulfillment comes in others an attempt is made to act upon the suggestion but nevertheless circumstances over which the dreamer has no control bring him in spite of himself into the position foretold so that's what we were talking about sometimes they there's nothing you can do 3 the symbolical dream this too is the work of the ego and indeed it almost be defined as a less successful variant of the preceding class for it is after all an imperfectly translated effort on his part to convey information as to the future it has his hand up let's see and go ahead yes even though you can affect the events you could always practice equanimity and in fact it's a you know a spiritual view of circumstances yes and you know in my case sometimes it happened that the very fact that you had a dream of something even if it was something unpleasant and odd or a difficulty and then that that comes to happen then the fact of having dreamt of it before gives you the perspective that there is far more going on than we know on the physical plane and and that awareness itself can help you go through it as you said with a more philosophical attitude with more equanimity so many times you know the problem is that we are we are so centered on the physical consciousness when we are awake that we think that everything that happens should be so that it can make your life on the physical plane plane more pleasurable you know more pleasant and but the the real consciousness sees these things in a completely different way and and the real consciousness may know that that we must go to through certain difficulty that that is the best thing that happened to you so a memory of that is not necessarily supposed to or have the the purpose of you trying to avoid the circumstances it may have the purpose of us you were saying take this in a more spiritual way so don't think that dreaming of the future should be because you you have to be able to change of course if we have certain information and we can avoid certain suffering we can try you know we can always try to avoid suffering that has not happened but that is not necessarily what what is based so if if the best is to go through the circumstances we won't be able to prevent them so let's say something about the symbolic dream yada so let bitter says this is more or less the same as the other ones but it's when when they either the ego is not able to impress this on the brain with their translation or the brain is not able to translate it however it works but many times the symbolic dream is a piece of information that the ego is trying to convey to the physical consciousness either of something that may happen in the future or or something that is going on at the moment or something that we need to understand that may be on the astral plane we understand and then we say I need to understand this you know when I am awake but but the ego may not be able to convey it in a clear way so it comes assessing as a symbol so these again are the symbolic dreams for the vivid and connected dream this is sometimes a remembrance more or less accurate of a real astral experience which has occured to the eagle while wandering away from his sleeping physical body many times you have this kind of vivid dreams with a with a very coherent history or a story in the dream and and they may be remembrances as the bitter sense of what happened on the astral plane now again as we are going to see normally on the backbone of this real memory there will be many other elements that that bring some kind of chaotic you know nature or Sun something that doesn't really make sense and these elements may be things that were added by the physical the astral body or the 30 brain which again we are going to see some examples of so a vivid unconnected dream may be a remembrance of the astral plane or as he is going to say normally we don't get the pure remembrance we get a mixed remembrance of different things more frequently perhaps it is the dramatization by the ego either of the impression produced by some trifling physical sound or touch or of some casual idea which happens to strike him so this is important to remember for example the dream of this person that was a soldier went to trial was killed that's it that's a coherent dream it has a storyline it may feel vivid because it was awakened even by your physical sound and yet has nothing to do with a real experience on the astral plane so we need to know that many times these coherent dreams may be just this kind of dramatization of the ego when we remember a dream we we need to keep in mind the possibilities and see if we can find the meaning behind the dream if we don't see any meaning in particular even if he was you know a coherent dream then it's probably just some dramatization of the ego of something physical or a thought form that was around or similar things the confused dream this which is by far the communist of all may be caused as has already been pointed out in various ways one it may be simply a more or less perfect recollection of a series of the disconnected pictures and impossible transformations produced by the senseless automatic action of the lower physical brain so let's go one by one so this confused dream as he says is mostly what we have and so so that we need to work a little on the memory so if there is a confused dream many times it's just the pictures produced by the physical brain and they they don't have any particular meaning to it maybe a reproduction of the stream of casual thought which has been pouring through the etheric part of the brain we explained that there are thought forms going around they get to the etheric brain and then that produces some kind of images again they they maybe we are going to see an example of that after a memory of of when we were you know a child or of when we were in some situation or place these are normally produced on the etheric level three essential images of any kind enter into it it is due to the ever Restless tide of earthly desire probably stimulated by some unholy influence of the astral world so we have the astral body and as we said there are all kinds of thought forms and forms of feelings going through the astral plane and if they they happen to to encounter our astral body they will tend to to generate an echo in our astral body so dreams that are sensual or that are related to anger or things like that many times they are just external stimulation now sometimes it may be the product or the result of our own psychological activity if during the dread the day we are we are angry for example we go to sleep the vibration on the astral plane stays active it is said that even for 48 hours a strong vibration made me stay active for 48 hours so when we go to sleep that anger that is still on our astral body may generate all these these images in the ego the ego is is feeling these these vibrations of anger and generates these stories or these memories so these are the case of the psychological dreams were where a dream is talking about something that is going on in our psyche some we may not even be aware people on the spiritual path tend to be more and more aware a person may be very angry about something that is going on but because of the lack of awareness not even really notice that he or she is angry about it and then when when he goes to sleep all that anger begins to generate all this images so from a psychological point of view many times looking at these kind of dreams helps to to find out what is happening with our astral body what in psychology is called the unconscious mind is nothing but the vibrations in our astral body and our mental body that they keep on vibrating whether we are aware of that or not on on the physical plane but many times the dreams don't necessarily have to do with your own psychological activity as we see here they are just the echo of external influences so if you are sleeping close to and somebody in your household is really angry doesn't mean that those thought forms may come to you and generate a new some kind of angry dream for example so we have to be careful yeah let's see and yes go ahead what about the recurring dreams yeah recurring dreams I would say that are probably something that has to do with we with a more psychological aspect you know when when we go to sleep if we go to sleep worried about something for example the ego on the on the astral plane we keep on thinking and just as we do in our physical brain and go into that again especially if the ego is not really aware of the astral plane and active on the astral plane it's just like if you are worried about something in your physical life but you have to go to work well you may forget for the time being that don't worry but if you are alone in your house then it keeps playing in your mind so in a similar way if you are active on the astral plane that may not happen but if not that keeps in the mind and that may be a source of it yes what what else do you want to say I'm talking about like over years oh I I think part of it has to do with its how we how our astral body manifests or how it looks I know for example for me when if it's anxiety I manifest anxiety by it's always either I'm a teacher without can't find my lesson plans or I can't find the room or I'm a student and I'm in a marble hallway and I have socks on and I can't get to class so that's if I have that dream I know that there's some sort of anxiety in my life even if it's not apparent to me yeah that's that's a good explanation it may be that are the we generate a habit of interpreting a particular feeling with a particular scene I I don't have a lot of personal experience in that I don't know if I have recurring dreams but what Michelle says makes sense so probably our consciousness generates preferred it kind of image to express those feelings that make sense yet okay we're going on to number four or it may be due to an imperfect attempt at dramatization on the part of an undeveloped eagle so the the confused dream may be as he says the ego in drama decides something generates these stories but if it is not really developed the it may be confused and five or it may be and most often is due to an inextricable mingling of several or any several or all of these influences so that's what usually happens all these influences have some part in the confused dreams and this is what we are going to see in the next in the next class there is I think only the last one that is set up for for the next meeting the way in which such mingling takes place will perhaps be made clear by a short account of some of the experiments on the dream state recently made by the London lodge of the Theosophical Society with the aid of some clairvoyant investigators among its members now recently is not yes at the end of the 19th century when Leadbeater and seen it and some others were part of the London lodge they did some interesting experiments that we are going to go through in the next class and that will be a concrete example of how all these things happen so that's all for tonight let's see if anybody else has some comments or questions about what we have been talking about you can raise your hand if you have a mic or you can type in the chat box okay there is one dad what's going on tell me that with this day I should look down upon the topic of our conversation to believe that my dream was for training my understanding of the situation rather than what she was actually doing and saying in other words whereas the lady was objectively they are on the astral plane attempting to converse with me in my dream what I was actually seeing and hearing was entirely subjective Oh were you able to hear what Michelle said and we should just read the dream it was well I could read I could hear it okay so yes well again this depends on how how each each for consciousness interprets this so I I wouldn't tell you how you have to interpret this because I have seen that we do it in different ways and it is very important to see the feelings that were associated as I said not only what happened but what feelings were associated with that and I think you are kind of doing that because you say that she was doing this with disdain so there was this feeling of this day so this may be two things it may be a symbolic dream and and the lady may may have represented something you know and the looking down and I or it may be something that happened on the astral plane an experience on the astral plane which you remember in a fragmentary way in the sense that you you are not sure what she was doing when showing you know looking down I don't know if the the idea of looking down upon the topic of of the conversation means looking down down in the in the sense of of actually because the idea of down also may mean the lower planes so this could be a remembrance of the attempt to impress on the physical brain a particular information that the brain retained us this idea of looking down but again since you are talking about this thing they are it may be that your interpretation of of looking down in a bad way may be true so this is an example of something that can be interpreted in different ways and that we need to to make efforts to to have different theories and then as you try to do this it's like we generate a kind of intuition that tells us what's the right interpretation without having this dream when I first read it especially if you had not put this their disdain thing the feeling there I I would think that this was somebody trying to to tell you you know how to impress on the brain some memory because you actually did remember at least part of it so that would be an interpretation but again I don't know what the the feeling of this day would have happened there it may also happen that many times on the astral plane we just don't care about communicating to the physical consciousness something that we know they are we we understand something on the astral plane we are fine with it we just don't want to make the effort to impress it on the physical brain and which I said whatever it's fine I don't need to I understand this I don't need it on the physical plane and then when we are awake we actually made it but we just didn't want to make the effort so all these things we begin to understand it just by experience as we have the dreams and try to interpret them and the effort begins to to generate this intuition can you repeat done yeah uh marina was wondering if all the dreams that you have throughout the night the sequence of dreams if they're somehow connected trying to get one clear message across or last night listen again to ideas come to my mind that that it could be one it could be that there is an experience on the astral plane sometimes we we learn different things on the astral plane and we do things so if we were doing something in particular during that night or learning something in particular whenever we wake up is when we impress the brain with the memory of what we were doing so if during that night we woke up several times and we got different fragments of that experience then in the morning we may remember all the different fragments and they were actually memories of something that we were doing or learning on the astral plane and sometimes it's simply the ego in this this story making Faculty of the ego many times it happens we have a dream that we like we wake up and we go back to sleep and keep on dreaming the same thing it's just because we were we like that dream so when we go back to the astral plane we just keep on you know making up this story as we do when we are daydreaming we are thinking of something amusing ourselves with thinking of something somebody asked you something you answer the person leaves and you fall back into continuing with your memory image-making so it could be those are the two options that come to my mind and again this I personally don't believe too much in other people interpreting the dreams for us I do believe we can help rather like giving different options but ultimately speaking it is us the ones that will develop this intuition to say to understand how to interpret our dreams any other question or comment all right so thank you everybody for joining as usual we are going to send an exercise in case you want to to try these things and I hope to see you next week we are going to finish the book if you if you can't because this was not in the schedule don't worry as usual we would send the recording and I hope you thank you everybody again and I hope you had a great week bye bye